053. How to Navigate Networking Challenges: Empowering Physician Entrepreneurs Across Diverse Scenarios with Dr. Mike Woo-Ming

00:05 Dr. Ann Tsung Are you struggling to advance your career and sacrificing time with your loved ones because of endless to-dos, low energy, and just not enough time in the day? If so, then this podcast is for you. I am your host Dr. Ann Tsung, an ER critical care and space doctor, a peak performance coach, a real estate investor, and a mother of a toddler. I’m here to guide you on mastering your mind and give you the essential skills to achieve peak performance. Welcome to Productivity MD, where you can learn to master your time and achieve the five freedoms in life.

00:52 Hello. Welcome to Productivity MD Podcast. I have here Dr. Mike Woo-Ming. He is a physician, a primary care physician, who has retired from corporate medicine. Currently, he’s a physician entrepreneur who started his own cash-based practice. He is a coach for physicians, a business coach for physicians at Limitless MD. The reason why I brought him on today, because he has a special superpower of very intentional networking in different situations. We talked about productivity, so you can take action and be productive no matter what type of venture you go into in terms of real estate or in terms of other types of businesses. So we’re going to have different scenarios, different events, and then figure out the strategies for you on how to network. First, I would like to have Dr. Woo-Ming to talk about how he actually got to where he is in now. How did you retire from your corporate medicine, and now you’re a business coach for physicians? Why do you do what you do currently?

02:00 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Well, first of all, Anne, thanks for being here. Please call me Mike. Again, I’m a big productivity nut. So anytime time you have to deal with productivity or become more efficient, I’m like, I’m there. I want to learn more about it. My story is that I’m a family medicine-trained, although I haven’t done family medicine quite a while. I went to Mayo Clinic for my training. I’m in Southern California. I’m a Southern California boy. I went to the Midwest and came back in. I joined a group practice in family medicine. Although I love medicine, I didn’t love other aspects of medicine that we probably don’t have to go after — just with working with EMR, declining reimbursements, more and more work, unfortunately not enough money with the amount of work that was being done.

02:48 But what really affected me was the birth of my second son. He was found to have autism. I wanted to spend more time with my sons. Unfortunately, it wasn’t really in the cards for me to do that in full time and to take all and all that. So I looked for other streams of income. For me, it was business, entrepreneurship. I started a consulting company, which led me to a software company. That allowed me to actually retire from medicine for several years. Since then, I went back into medicine. Because like I said, I always loved it. But I wanted to see if I could practice medicine my own way. That started with Executive Medical which is my cash-based medical practices. We have three locations. It focuses on weight loss, hormone therapy, aesthetics. We’ve got over 20 employees right now. It’s been a fun ride, and I just enjoy entrepreneurship.

03:40 And to answer your question of why I got into business coach, I’ve always loved teaching as most doctors do. I found that, especially for physicians, as you know, we get very little of all business training in medical school. I just want it my way of giving back in being in a position to help a doctor where I was 20 plus years ago, saying that there is possibilities that you can have your own business. We can go beyond that doctor myth that we’re really bad in business. As long as we can apply things, become efficient, become more productive, we also can go into other disciplines that perhaps we were not as well educated on, which is business. That’s why it became business coach. I got together with Peter Kim and then with Vikram Raya. I’m part of their Mastermind, and I’m enjoying every minute of it.

04:34 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, I was actually coached at one of the Limitless conferences by all three of you guys at the same time, which was awesome.

04:42 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, hopefully, we were gentle and not too mean. But it’s all about tough love and exposing your weaknesses to allow them to become strengths.

04:52 Dr. Ann Tsung Oh, yeah, I loved it. That was exactly what I needed. In such a short time, so much knowledge. This is one of the conferences we’ll talk about too in terms of networking. I am wondering, for the physicians to know why they should even care to learn about how to network intentionally and productively. Why does it matter? Or I guess maybe the other question is, what if you don’t learn these specific networking skills, then what are you wasting?

05:21 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, that’s a great point. I think for many doctors, when they go to conferences, we know the same conferences that we go to. We go there because we have to go there. Either it’s part of our CMEs so we’re trying to get our CME credits, or maybe we’re trying to get certified in some type of aspect in our specialty, and we’re required to go. Perhaps it’s meetings such as going through hospital meetings and different conferences to expand that. We really aren’t used to networking. I know about me. Whenever I went to CME conferences, I would go in there, get what I needed, and then go home as soon as I can and not spending time. Especially in something like a discipline where you’re not very familiar in, which is entrepreneurship, for many.

06:09 Owning a business, running a business, growing a business, it can be very daunting especially if you’ve never done it before. What I like to say, entrepreneurship, it can be very lonely too. You’re starting something. Maybe you’re a coach, and you want to do this on the side. Maybe you’re like myself. You want to start your own private practice. You need to have mentors to get there where you’re going. You yourself are a mentor for others and you help them. Perhaps they can learn it on its own. But we’re only on this planet for a finite period of time. And if you want to get there quicker as what most of us do, you want to be productive, more efficient. You hire mentors. You find people.

06:48 And so when you go to other conferences, let’s say, for example, you want to learn about real estate. You can go to a real estate conference. I guess what the next question is, why network? Sure. You can go to the conference because you want to learn. Maybe it’ll force you to learn. You’ll be in an enclosed space for a few days, and so you can learn it rather than reading a book on the side. But because you’re an entrepreneur, you want to be surrounded by like-minded people. I think it really gets you going. I know, for me, my path to becoming successful, relatively speaking as an entrepreneur, is when I surrounded myself with like-minded people. Make sure that those people that were in the room maybe had different strengths than I did. I had some weaknesses, and I’m networking to find strengths. Maybe I’m going to find someone who could be a partner for me. Maybe I’m going to find someone who maybe they have skills or knowledge that maybe I don’t necessarily need. But maybe they know people that can help me as well. That’s why I think it’s imperative, especially in entrepreneurship, to learn the skill of networking.

07:57 Dr. Ann Tsung Sometimes physicians don’t feel like they are entrepreneur because they just work for hospital medicine. So I totally get that side. But the other side, there are a lot of physicians who own their own practice. That is pure entrepreneurship. Or if you want to venture out to create your own syndication, if you want to do any sort of investment in real estate, that’s entrepreneurship — med spas, or coaching, et cetera. So I think entrepreneurship is everywhere. If you want to get out of the daily grind of working, trading time for money, doing shifts in the hospital as a hospitalist in ER and ICU, then typically, you look for other routes that’s going to make you money without trading time. A lot of times, those other routes is entrepreneurship, right? So without learning those skills, without being intentional in terms of your networking and surrounding yourself with the right peers, it will be very hard for you to, I guess, get out of those golden handcuffs. Have you seen that with some of your clients?

08:57 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Exactly. And it doesn’t have to be a pure entrepreneurship conference. I go to specific aspects that perhaps could help me in my business, or it may not. For example, over the last year, I’ve been to two artificial intelligence conferences. I know that AI, as we know, it’s coming. It’s always in the news what’s going on. We’ve seen some applications on medicine, but we’re still in its very early stages. And so, for me, as a business owner, I want to learn more about it. I would rather be someone who acquires that knowledge rather than find out later on that maybe I might be replaced by AI. So I go to these conferences sometimes without even a clear agenda in mind, just knowing I want to be in a room where I can learn more about it but also see who else is in there. Maybe there’s another physician that I can connect with or not. Maybe there’s someone in another discipline maybe in dentistry, maybe in veterinary, perhaps in health, and see what they’re doing. Then I can say maybe — for me, if I can just maybe take a couple of nuggets that could perhaps influence my business, maybe helped me in the right decisions or helped me to avoid the wrong decisions, then for me, it’s ready to go with that.

10:10 In fact, I know some doctors who have never gone to a conference and feels like, I can learn everything on the internet, or I can learn everything on YouTube. Certainly, there’s an argument to be meant by that. But there’s so much information out there, right? Where do you even begin to start? Where do you begin? Where does it end? Is it the right information? For me, for someone who can get on a plane or get in their car and then go to a conference and generally pays some money to go there, that’s someone who’s probably ready to commit to learn more about whatever that is. For me, I think it’s prudent for me to be in that room to just maybe learn and network and see what aspect in my life could be improved by going to this conference.

10:54 Dr. Ann Tsung So we heard about the why and the what. It’s that, potentially, you will be able to buy your time back by paying for those. It could be conferences. It could be other types of events. But you’ll get the same results, I have to say. You’ll get the same results. But you pay it either with your own time, or you’ll pay money. Go into these things for immersion. You pay with money to buy more time back so that you can find the right mentors and the right peer group. So I do want to dig into a little bit of the strategy, the how. I know there’s many different groups of intentions of people. So let’s take real estate, for example. Let’s take maybe an investor who wants to begin investing, who has never set up anything before, who has never built a network, who has not reached out to agents or anything like that. Just pick a market. How would that person approach a networking or how to even reach out or network either at an event or not, a real estate investor event? Or is there a different strategy for that person, like one-on-one reach outs to people in their market?

11:55 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yes, so let’s say someone is getting involved in real estate. Let’s say, I’m here in San Diego, right? San Diego, California, probably one of the most expensive places, if not, the most expensive place in the country. For someone who wants to invest in real estate, unless they’ve got some gigantic pockets, you have to shell out lot of chunks of change to invest in property around here. Probably not the average person is going to be able to afford it. So if I was beginning real estate, what I want to know is, are there other people around here? I know there’s some people in real estate. I’ve had some friends who are realtors. What are they doing who are in this area? There’s a local real estate meetup, meetup.com. You can go find any type of knowledge, discipline. Anything you want to learn, you can probably find someone who has that. Whether it be relationships, or you’re going hiking, or you want to play pickleball or tennis, whatever, there’s meetups. So you can meet and talk about those kinds of things.

12:55 Well, there’s real estate meetups in every city, in every community. That could be where you first start. Maybe you’re going to find other people who are in the same boat. Hey, I’m getting involved in real estate. What do I need to do? What you’ll find out is that there will be people who are hopefully much more advanced than you are, that are probably investing in real estate probably outside of that community, outside of other areas in California. Perhaps in Nevada, perhaps in Utah, et cetera. What are they doing? That might be somebody we would want to connect with. Maybe these are other people who may be in the same boat. Maybe they don’t have a lot of money, but they’re willing to meet others. Maybe they can start a relationship with possibly going in and doing that. We could find out what are the sites that they’re using in terms of finding real estate. As you know, there are real estate properties that aren’t always listed on Zillow. By the time they get on, they’re already being taken. So how do they connect? Those happen all the time, that it’s not publicly available.

13:53 So there’s a lot of different ways that you can benefit by going to these. And for someone like myself who is pretty introverted, this takes me out of my comfort zone to do it. But I know it’s a necessary step for me to grow whatever I want to do, whether it’s my business, my life, my career. Going into conferences and being pretty in what you choose, because you can’t go to everything, is really important.

14:16 Dr. Ann Tsung Is there a specific step or strategy that you use when you get there to those meetups?

14:22 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, what I do is, first, I ask myself or I should know what is the purpose of me going. Why am I going to this conference? Is it to maybe learn? Maybe there’s a speaker or someone that they’re doing something that’s really, really cool that I want to do. Maybe in this real estate conference, they’re going to talk about buying land. I’m interested in that land, and I don’t know how to do it. So maybe I’m going to meet there. Is it to meet with that speaker? Perhaps maybe it’s someone that I have a speaker and maybe I like this person and feel this person as he or her has a lot of knowledge. Perhaps they are doing coaching, or maybe they’re doing mentoring. So that could be one why. Maybe it’s just because I want to know about real estate. Perhaps I feel like I’m doing this by myself. Maybe my spouse doesn’t understand. Maybe I needed to be surrounded by other people interested in real estate, and I want to know what they’re doing. That could be an important point. That’s the first part. It’s like, why are you going? Are you going there for knowledge? Are you going there for networking? Maybe you’re an advanced real estate person, and maybe you want to raise capital. That’s another aspect. So whatever that is, that’s really where you start.

15:32 Then what I do is — what’s the one person, Ann, that people want to talk about? It’s themselves, right? So where I see a lot of problems is when you start networking, and people just tell all about their story, their life, et cetera. I think we’ve learned as physicians, the most important skill that we could have is listening, listening to the patient. You also got to listen to the person that you’re with. If it’s a good event, perhaps they have scheduled networking activities. Some of these events I’ve been to were almost 20,000 people. Usually, if they run their program correctly, they have certain areas where you can maybe network with certain people.

16:15 For example, in a giant real estate conference, perhaps it’s like a newbie, a beginning conference. You have those people there. Maybe there’s people who are just interested in multifamily. Maybe they have something right there. So going and being in these networking things, hopefully, they have something that’s structured, where it’s speed networking or people are introducing each other. But perhaps it’s as simple as just going to the bar and saying, hey, why are you here? That’s usually where I start with. It’s like, hey, cool. Maybe you see something. It almost sounds like dating. That’s a whole other realm that I probably don’t want to go into. Definitely not an expert. But maybe you see something. Perhaps a person wears a shirt that has, you went to University of Indiana. Maybe they have got a produce shirt or something like that, something where you have some type of connection. Usually, those people want to network as well, and they’re looking for some type of icebreaker. It’s like hey. Hey, really cool. I saw you at that session right there. What did you get out of it? Why are you here? I just let them talk. That’s what we have to do. Use your skills of listening and to see why they’re there. For the most part, people are pretty open to it. If they don’t, then just walk away. That’s okay, too. Because there’s other people in there who are there just to network. The first step is having them talk and to see why they’re here.

17:37 Dr. Ann Tsung Then afterwards?

17:40 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Then afterwards is, hopefully, they’ll do the same thing too and say, well, why are you here? Then you have to have what we call a little elevator pitch or a little pitch where you write it on a napkin. Basically, it’s, “I’m here. My name is so and so. I’m here to attend for this particular reason. And why I’m here is because I’m a real estate investor. I’m looking for other people who may be interested in networking in the Indianapolis area.” You always want to talk about what you do. But you also want to talk about what you do. Not only about how you can help them, but they can help you. I think what the problem is, when people try to network, it’s always about how can you help me rather than how can I help you. That’s where the problem starts on in there.

18:33 Basically, I was told that I was a really good networker. Really, what it is I just use my listening skills and then I see why are they here. I asked them like, what brought you here? Is there anything in particular that you’re looking for, or you hope to get out of this? Then what I do is I then pointed that and perhaps maybe I provide that. Maybe they say, in my case, yeah, I’m looking for someone to mentor me in my business. Hey, I’m a business coach. That’s great. Or maybe they’d say, I’m actually interested in maybe getting some mentoring in real estate, which is not my forte. But I know Vikram. I know, Peter. I know people. So hey, you should maybe consider doing this. Then I’d make the introduction. Because what Vikram says, Vikram Raya, who is the main dude at Limitless MD, he says, in our phone, we know 100 other doctors. Among them, we also know probably 100 non-doctors as well. And so once you build your Rolodex, so to speak, you know who to go to or who the right people to go to. Because at the end, we’re just finding people that would help me in my business. I’m willing to share that with others to help them get along in their journey as well.

19:46 Dr. Ann Tsung So in summary, it sounds like go in with a mindset to really serve. Going intentional, knowing your why. Maybe I will find three potential co-investors or partners on a deal, or maybe I will go find three investors that can be added to my list if you’re trying to do a syndication. Or, I will find three agents. Then I’m going to have their contact for the deal funnel. Going in with an intention and introducing yourself, having a very quick elevator pitch but also listening to them very carefully and figure out their needs. You actually become the super networker by meeting their needs. You perhaps could have a goal of doing three introductions for people that will help address what they need. That’s what it sounds like. Is that correct? Is that the correct summary?

20:38 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming 100%, yeah. I’ll give you an example. People asked. They knew I worked with Peter Kim. I’ve known him for a long time. The reason that I guess I’ve known him so long is, I attended his first meetup for Passive Income MD several years ago. That was probably like five or six years ago. But with COVID, everything is off on in there. He sent me recently a picture. It was myself, a few others, and Pranay Parikh who is — he worked with us on capital. I think it was like nine people there. And really, why I was there is because I was just more curious that there were other physicians who were talking about passive income. I’ve been doing this for quite some time. Not a lot of physicians were talking about passive income. We just usually talk about active income or talk about our W2, our career. So having a physician talk about different aspects, building income — even at the time, I really wasn’t interested in real estate. At the time, I just wanted to meet him and meet other. Not necessarily him but other people just kind of talking about it. Because like I said, it can be very lonely. It’s just kind of cool having other doctors talk about those kinds of things. I’m sure you’ve benefited as well by going to conferences where we have physicians talk about things that aren’t related to our board exams or declining reimbursements and different things like that. It’s good to talk about other subjects as well.

22:06 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, we talked about the positive, where we want to go, instead of just complaining about the negative. Then I feel like I get inspired by other people knowing who’s 5, 10 years ahead of me. I know where they started, and I know I can get there just because they have done it. Also, since you’re talking about PIMD and other types of conferences, I am wondering would the strategies be different? Let’s say, if it is a conference like a Limitless, PIMD versus like a UPW, would the strategies of going in there to network be different for you?

22:44 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, it really is. What you just showed there are really two different conferences but maybe the same type of people to go to. I haven’t been to UPW per se, but I’ve seen Tony Robbins speak. I’ve been a big fan of his. I read his books when I was in medical school. When I probably should have been reading principles of Internal Medicine, I was reading his books. And so, a lot of people go there with a specific reason. Perhaps there’s something that they feel is not right in their lives, for lack of a better term, broken. They’re looking, and they maybe have seen Tony Robbins on a YouTube video or on his Netflix special. Perhaps they see him and he worked with President Clinton and all these different things in sports, figures, and say, hey, maybe I need more personal development in my life. So they’re going there. Yes, they have to network, but they’re also getting Tony and everything that Tony brings, which can be a lot, right? That’s a specific thing.

23:48 Maybe you’re looking to network. Maybe you’re not. As you know, some people kept it themselves. Some people are like, I want to experience it. Others, like the examples that were given is, maybe they want to start their journey into real estate, want to be surrounded by like-minded physicians. They choose a physician-only event because they feel as we do. As human beings, we’re tribal. And so we like to be around people who are like-minded, share the same experiences. That might be where they start. Others might do a general real estate event. Someone may do a local real estate event. Really, everything is kind of different. I think the benefit of all it is just to be around other people, meeting really cool people. It just makes life a lot more interesting rather than sitting at home, which we did for two plus years recently, and to get out.

24:43 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, finding your tribe is essentially a motivation for you, and people to cheer you on instead of bring you down. Some of the common questions I also get from my clients is, well, there’s two different scenarios. Maybe one, somebody who is a physician who wants to become a coach. Where would they even go about to begin networking, to let people know about their services so that their future clients know about them? It’s like perhaps a form of networking. Either at the conferences or call reach outs, warm reach outs, et cetera. Number two scenario, if you wouldn’t mind touching on, very commonly, it’s somebody wants to start their syndication. How to even begin building an investor list, other than we talked about going to those local real estate meetups? Anything that you could tell us for those two scenarios just based on the physicians that you have coached?

25:37 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, well, actually, you can combine those two scenarios if you want to break it down. At the end, it’s just like what can I do to grow and scale my business, whether it be a coaching business or perhaps the start of a syndication business? The first place you got to start is: is my potential audience or my prospects going to be in that room? Are they going to be at that conference? So if you’re going to, let’s say, you’re a woman physician. Let’s say, you’re going to focus on relationship coaching for physicians for women, probably you’re not going to get a great benefit if you’re going to be at the YMCA. Where are they at? So you want to go and say, well, maybe I need to go to conferences where women physicians go to. There are conferences. I believe it’s called Braveheart, different organizations that focus on women. There are physician coaching conferences. That’s where I would start. It’s like when you identify it, will my potential audience be there? That’s probably where the first part to start with.

26:49 The same thing that goes with syndication. If you’re going to start a syndication and you’re going to focus on physicians, maybe I should be where potentially physician investors should be in. That’s where you’re going to go. It’s similar to like why they have sponsors. It’s like why these sponsors have certain events. They’re going to focus on where is your potential audience going to be at. And so they’re on it. If your business is similar to what a sponsor’s business is going to be in, you want to find out and identify those sponsors and find out where they’re going. That’s the first place to start.

27:24 Dr. Ann Tsung So once you get there, though, how do you — do you just use the same method as a super networker? You have your like, say, I’m a coach. How do you even approach somebody to tell them that you’re a coach to find potential clients? Or it’s more like you listen to them for their needs. And if you can assess that they need you, then you start talking about it. But you wouldn’t push it on to them unless you know that they need it.

27:48 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, I just listen to them. I listen to them because I don’t want to be somebody too — for lack of a better example, I think of a drug rep coming into my practice where she’s trying to get in there, or he’s trying to get in there, and just talk everything that she rehearsed that morning about this drug or this product. She wants to get five minutes with that doctor. She is just like da, da, da, da and give me study after study. I’m barely listening. I’m in between patients. That’s not a pleasant experience for me. So if somebody is telling me that they’re a coach and telling me all there is, they don’t even know anything about me. Why would I be even interested? You don’t know what problems I might be having. That’s why I’m always saying it’s like — I see this with coaches, where they come in and they’re just like someone at a party where dudes are just coming in. Then they’re coming in in your group, and they’re just dominating the conversation. Then suddenly, that little party disperses because they don’t want to be around that person.

28:46 A better way is to listen to people. Listen to why they’re here. Listen to what’s going on in their business. Hey, how’s business? They’re not going to tell you at first glance. Like, what are your three major problems that are affecting your life right now, right? No, they’re going to be like — you can start easy. Just say hey, why are you here? How’s that going? How are you doing? Is there a way that you think you could be more efficient in your practice? Things like that. That’s where you can introduce some of the conversations. Then with that, you need to be ready to exchange information. Before, it used to be with business cards and everything like that. That still works to some extent. But for me, I lose cards. I put them in my backpack. I lose them on flights and different things like that. Right now, it’s just sweet. I’m using texting. There are certain applications you can use where you can have a QR code that sends them the information. Very, very simple. But I see where people — they connect and then they’re like a week or two weeks later, who is that blonde guy that I was talking to? What was his name? Then they lose it.

29:55 An important part, at least, is making sure you’re getting the right information. Then when you got that information, it’s to make a note for yourself. It’s like, hey, this is Barry from New York City. I’m thinking about starting a weight loss practice, was interested in fallout. Just a note for yourself. Because if you’re a great networker, you might get 20, 30, 40 people. My brain isn’t that good at retaining information right now. I don’t recognize faces that much. Just having a little note for themselves. Even something very simple. Like, hey, Barry’s wife went to Stanford University. Then when you guys connect, something as simple as that is going to even make that connection even bigger. I think that’s something that I don’t see often. Because what it does is, you’re really kind of connecting. And if you connect on other levels just besides hey, you could potentially be a prospect or a client for me, connecting me in a more human nature and things that they’re interested. Whether it be sports, or hobbies, or whatever, it’s going to make that connection even stronger by the next time you follow up with them.

31:03 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, I completely agree. So it sounds like no matter if it’s a real estate you’re looking for, investors, or you’re looking for potential clients, or maybe even potential patients if you have a practice like an aesthetic practice or a plastic practice, I know some of them depend a lot on reviews, on Google reviews and client reviews. Well, to cure their needs, first, don’t just go in there to try to sell. Hear their needs first and provide value. If you can help them by little tips depending on your field and what you do, you can share your experiences. Perhaps I’m thinking like in real estate, if somebody is having issues with real estate or how to get started, maybe that’s when you can actually share your journey from when you started to where you are now. Then people will start becoming more curious about you and then start asking you questions about what you do. Is that kind of correct what you’re saying?

32:00 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, it’s like as in dating, right? You don’t want to marry them. I see people who start to marry them at the conference where it just started off with just sending some curious information. The other thing too is, we had a call like this where we were helping one of the coaches. He said he got a lot of great leads. He said he had 80 plus leads from the conference he went to. But when he actually came back, he really didn’t have 80 leads. He had 80 connections. But when he wanted to follow up, they didn’t really know what he did or what he could do to help them. And so, maybe you’re not to the point where you can explain everything that you do on in there. But if it’s like just having a connection, just kind of like, hey, I’d love to continue the conversation further. If they’re local, great. Maybe get a cup of coffee. Hey, just to follow up what we’re kind of talking about, whatever that is, on just a friend level. Just say hey, it’s just really cool. I just want to know what you thought of the conference. Maybe we can share some insights that I have learned. I always like to pick my brain because — what you learned? That can be a connection right there. You’re not exactly the typical selling your stuff, selling your products and services but just connecting with them on a human level. It’s always worked well for me.

33:14 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, I think one thing that worked well for me was, I have my own contact card. I would just share it via text to the other person. That would say right away anything about that person, like you said. Also, what I do is, if I feel like I have resources, for example, I have a list of what the VA does for me, my virtual assistant does for me in terms of social media, business, personal. A lot of times, if I find that if it could be useful for the person, I just share it to them. Then that’s it. Thru text, that link. And so you’re actually providing value and services already without asking for anything back. And it’s a great way to follow up too just to see like, hey, have you had a chance to review this? Where are you in your assistant search process? Do you have any questions? Because there’s test tasks that you give. There’s interview process. How do you know you have the right qualities, all those things that come along with hiring a virtual assistant? I found that if I give a resource that could help them first, it’s a great way to follow up back to them.

34:18 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Yeah, I love that. I love that too. You’re helping them where they’re at. And kind of one of my pet peeves is too — I don’t want to get off on a tangent. It’s like when I talk to someone and then, suddenly, I’m on their email list. Then they’re sending me barrages, barrages of emails that are like I didn’t really ask for this. Then I probably unsubscribe to it. It’s because it’s just like with dating. Again, I’m using them. They’re going too fast for me. I was like, hey, slow down, buddy. We’re just getting started, and you’re already proposing in there. So if you do that, please stop it. Unless you’re going to ask them. Hey, I’ve got a newsletter. I think it’d be helpful. Ask them permission to do that before you do that. But I’m starting to see that a little bit more often than I would like. So just be smart. Treat people the way you would want to be treated.

35:09 Dr. Ann Tsung Yeah, and I think the one recent thing I started doing for those resources, there is a form that they would fill out to get the resources automatically mailed to them. There is a question that asks for their permission. It’s like opting in. Like, would you like to hear more about updates or anything on productivity? Or, would you like to have a coaching discovery call? So they opt in. It’s okay for you to contact them after if they do opt in. So I know we talked about quite a bit here. I do want to do a summary. What would you say would be a top three takeaway from what we discussed and then one action that people can take right after this?

35:49 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming That’s good. Number one is, choose conferences wisely. Are you there to learn? Are you there to network? Find out what that purpose is. Two, establishing what that purpose is and then making a concerted plan to find out what you want to actually do. And three is, just treat people on a human level. Connect with them. You don’t have to marry them at the conference. Simply just connect. Just having some type of connection with them, and then follow up later and see where that relationship progresses. One action item is to — as we’re recording this, it’s at the end of the year. It’s to identify three conferences in the next year that will help you get closer to your goals.

36:38 Dr. Ann Tsung Nice. Okay. So whether that’s real estate, if you’re a physician in real estate or entrepreneurship, you can look into Passive Income MD Conference. Any other examples for physician-focused entrepreneurship conferences they can go to? Limitless.

36:54 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming One of my big areas that I think all physicians need to learn is negotiation. It’s negotiation skills. Whether it’s in your career, whether it’s negotiating to get a better price on your real estate investment, whether it’s negotiating with your kids, with your spouses, we can all benefit from negotiation, through negotiation-type conferences. But whatever you want to learn to improve your life — whether it be learning how to connect with others, going to relationship conferences to improve the love languages of your significant other, whether it’s learning a new hobby, or whether it’s just becoming more productive and more efficient — there’s conferences everywhere. It could be 5 people. It could be 5,000 people. It doesn’t really matter to me. Anything you can do to get you outside the house, to meet other people, and just get more out of life.

37:52 Dr. Ann Tsung Awesome. I would say take a look at the five goals that you would have set for yourself for the year. Then pick, yes, the three conferences that at least one conference will move the needle on maybe multiple of those five goals at the same time perhaps. Then that’s the one that you will focus on. And so, as a business coach and also a coach for Limitless MD, I’m wondering, if people want to learn more about you to learn more about — to basically cut their time, you hire coaches. That’s the only way you buy back time. So if they want to get to know you, figure out if you might be a good fit, that you can help them and scale their business, how can they get into contact with you?

38:35 Dr. Mike Woo-Ming Best way is our main website. It’s bootstrapmd.com. I’ve done coaching for physicians for several years. My main emphasis is helping physicians build a cash-based medical practices, but I can also steer you into the right direction. That’s also the home of my podcast, where I was honored to have you as a guest recently. Going on to almost 250 now episodes coming up in a few weeks. So there’s lots of information we discuss about networking, entrepreneurship, career. We talk about relationships, all those kinds of things. Anything that physicians can do with becoming their own boss and talking about investing as well and multiple streams of income. Boostrapmd.com is probably the best place to be. Then, of course, you can also go to Limitless MD if you’re interested in our — we have different programs led by my good friend, Vikram Raya. Real estate is one of his issues, but we also talk about entrepreneurship as well. We have masterminds and programs for those who are looking to take the next step.

39:37 Dr. Ann Tsung All right. So go to bootstrapmd.com and then go check out the podcast as well, or limitlessmd.com. Again, thank you so much for your time today. I hope the audience, I know you guys got a bunch out of it. We talked about a lot. Just set one intention perhaps, one action after this. Then just go slow, and you will be able to become a super networker. Remember that everything we need is within us now. Thank you.

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